GTxN/M/S built by MAN / AEG / ADtranz / Bombardier

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Christian Maibaum
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Сообщение Christian Maibaum » 22 сен 2016, 21:41

Hi folks,

today I want to present / discuss / ask for editing the different tramway models referred to as "GTxN/M/S". https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTxN/M/S
That stands for "Gelenk-Triebwagen mit x Achsen für Normalspur/Meterspur/Schmalspur" (Articulated railcar with x axles for standard gauge [1435 mm] / meter gauge / narrow gauge)

Back in 1989 the worlds first 100% low floor called GT6N [Articulated railcar with 6 axles for standard gauge] tram was presented in Bremen:
Изображение

It has been built by MAN Gutehoffnungshütte Schienenverkehrstechnik AG (MAN GHH) which has been transferred from Maschinenfabrik Augsburg Nürnberg AG (MAN) in 1986. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAN#MAN_S ... hrstechnik.
MAN GHH was sold to AEG in 1990 and renamed to AEG Schienenfahrzeuge Nahverkehr & Wagen GmbH (AEG) on 01.07.1993.

Meanwhile, another four prototypes were built: 3 GT6N for München [Munich] in 1990/91 and 1 GT6M [meter gauge] for Augsburg in 1992.
Изображение

In Munich these cars were classified as R1.1.
Изображение

So far we have 4 MAN GHH GT6N and 1 MAN GHH GT6M.

In May 1993, the first of twelve GT6M for Zwickau has been delivered. The other 11 cars were delivered after 01.07.1993.

discussion point: Strictly speaking Zwickau received 1 MAN GHH GT6M and 11 AEG GT6M.
Technically, it is one series, and even before the renaming into AEG Schienenfahrzeuge Nahverkehr & Wagen GmbH already belonged to AEG.
So Zwickau should have received 12 AEG GT6M.
With that in mind, the prototypes for Munich and Augsburg are AEG GT6N and AEG GT6M as well!


In July 1993, the 78 piece AEG GT8N series delivery for Bremen began.
In 1994/95 Frankfurt (Oder) received 8 AEG GT6M
In 1994 the AEG GT6N series delivery for Berlin and Munich began. In Munich these cars were classified as R2.2.
In 1995 Braunschweig received 12 AEG GT6S.
In 1995 the AEG GT6N series delivery for Nürnberg [Nuremberg] began.
In December 1995 the first of ten GT6M-ZR for Jena has been delivered. The other 9 cars were delivered in 1996.

On January 1, 1996, the merger of ABB (AEG) and Daimler-Benz was carried out, commonly known under its brand Adtranz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adtranz

In 1996 Augsburg received 11 ADtranz GT6M
In 1996 Mainz received 16 ADtranz GT6M-ZR and the GT6M-ZR series delivery for Jena continued as ADtranz GT6M-ZR.
The GT8N series delivery for Bremen continued as ADtranz GT8N.
The GT6N series delivery for Berlin, Munich and Nuremberg continued as ADtranz GT6N.

Between 1998 and 2000 Nuremberg received 26 ADtranz GT8N2.
In 1999 the ADtranz GT8N2 series delivery for Munich began. In Munich these cars were classified as R3.3.
In 1999 the ADtranz GT6N-ZR series delivery for Berlin began.

On May 1, 2001, the takeover of Adtranz by Bombardier came into legal effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adtranz & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Transportation

The GT6N-ZR series delivery for Berlin continued as Bombardier GT6N-ZR.
In 2002/03 Jena received 14 Bombardier GT6M-ZR
---

From 1989 till 2003 there were:
  • GT6N built by MAN, AEG and ADtranz
  • GT6M bulit by MAN, AEG and ADtranz
  • GT8N built by AEG and ADtranz
  • GT6S built by AEG
  • GT6M-ZR built by AEG, ADtranz and Bombardier
  • GT8N2 built by ADtranz and Bombardier
  • GT6N-ZR built by ADtranz and Bombardier
Can the Database Admin please make the following Manufacturer of each type a sub type of the first produced one?
  • MAN GT6N
    • AEG GT6N
    • ADtranz GT6N
  • MAN GT6M
    • AEG GT6M
    • ADtranz GT6M
  • AEG GT8N
    • ADtranz GT8N
  • AEG GT6S
  • AEG GT6M-ZR
    • ADtranz GT6M-ZR
    • Bombardier GT6M-ZR
  • ADtranz GT8N2
    • Bombardier GT8N2
  • ADtranz GT6N-ZR
    • Bombardier GT6N-ZR
Currently there is something messed up with the ADtranz GT6S in Braunschweig. LHB GT6 Typ “Braunschweig” is not a subtype of the GT6S.

Best regards,
Christian
Последний раз редактировалось Christian Maibaum 26 сен 2016, 11:09, всего редактировалось 1 раз.

Михаил Исаков
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Сообщение Михаил Исаков » 25 сен 2016, 23:54

Hello,

I've added all mentioned models and deleted others as requested.
Unfortunately, it's not possible to make cross-factory lists as MAN, AEG, ADtranz and Bombardier are considered as different manufacturers from the database side.

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Christian Maibaum
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Сообщение Christian Maibaum » 30 сен 2016, 16:52

Hello,

how should we deal with it in the database, when a model receives in a city a different label than the manufacturer used? :unknown:

Some Examples:
  • Berlin
    • AEG GT6N was called "BVG GT6-94" on delivery
    • AEG GT6N is called "BVG/Cegelec GT6U" after exchange of traction converter and IBIS to OBU
    • ADtranz GT6N was called "BVG GT6-96" or "BVG GT6-97" (depending on source) on delivery
    • ADtranz GT6N is called "BVG/Cegelec GT6U" after exchange of traction converter and IBIS to OBU
    • ADtranz GT6N-ZR was called "BVG GT6-98" on delivery
    • ADtranz GT6N-ZR is called "BVG GT6Zo" after exchange of IBIS to OBU
    • Bombardier GT6N-ZR was called "BVG GT6-99" on delivery
    • Bombardier GT6N-ZR is called "BVG GT6Zo" after exchange of IBIS to OBU
  • Bruxelles (Brüssel)
    • Bombardier Flexity Outlook is called "Bombardier T3000"
    • Bombardier Flexity Outlook is called "Bombardier T4000"
  • Frankfurt am Main
    • Bombardier Flexity Classic is called "S"
  • Munich (München)
    • AEG GT6N is called "AEG R1.1" (prototype)
    • AEG GT6N is called "AEG R2.2" (series)
    • ADtranz GT6N is called "ADtranz R2.2" (series)
    • ADtranz GT8N2 is called "R3.3"
In case of Berlin the BVG has always used their own designation for busses und trams:
The new "Bombardier FLEXTITY Berlin" was designated by the manufacturer as "F6E / F6Z / F8E / F8Z"
The BVG just calls them "BVG GT6-08" and "BVG GT8-08".
In the database, both terms were used, but I would not recommend that for models that are used in other cities as well.

The BVG changed some equipment and gave their tramcars a new # and new designation, but is a new # the same as a modernisation?
In case of the GT6N-ZR only a new on board computer was installed to chance from analog radio to digital radio. As it is not possible to couple a train consisting of two different radio systems, the change of the radio system resulted in a change of the vehicle id +200, with new Cegelec controls +500 (example: 1006 -> 1506 / 2001 -> 2201).
As not all GT6N will get new Cegelec controls there will be "BVG GT6o" in the near future as well (example: 1001 -> 1201).

I would recommend to skip the BVG designations in the Database, as the BVG neither was nor is the manufacturer of a tramcar. If it is for some reason necessary to have the new designations like "GT6U", "GT6Zo" or "GT6o" in the Database, then please in connection with the original manufacturer.
All the "Tatra KT4D" trams which have been modernized by various companies are just called "Tatra KT4DM" regardless of which company carried out the modernisation or which firm built the controls!


Could they be done as a subtype of the Manufacturer?
  • AEG GT6N
    • AEG GT6U (Description: "Umbau der Wagen des Typs GT6N")
    • AEG R1.1
    • AEG R2.2
  • ADtranz GT6N
    • ADtranz GT6U (Description: "Umbau der Wagen des Typs GT6N")
    • ADtranz R2.2
  • ADtranz GT6N-ZR
    • ADtranz GT6Zo (Description: "Umbau der Wagen des Typs GT6N-ZR")
  • ADtranz GT8N2
    • ADtranz R3.3
  • Bombardier GT6N-ZR
    • Bombardier GT6Zo (Description: "Umbau der Wagen des Typs GT6N-ZR")
For Bombardier Models (Cityrunner / Eurotram / Flexity Outlook, Flexity Classic) we need an own thread ...

Михаил Исаков
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Сообщение Михаил Исаков » 30 сен 2016, 20:59

I think we can skip or add as submodel like AEG GT6N (BVG GT6-94). However, manufacturer type should be the main (and maybe the only) for model naming.

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